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[bakedapple]

Hey, everyone. It's... been quiet. I know it's sort of a complicated question, but... how is everyone?

[ As usual, Link's presence in Communion is humble and mild. Where he would normally be accompanied by the smell of morning dew on grass or the sensation of cold wind pricking one's cheeks, today is different — it's warm, like you're sitting next to an indoor fireplace, and there's a strong scent of expresso mixed with a hint of dusty paper. ]

Something has been on my mind lately. If you don't want to talk, you can tune this out now. It's fine.

[ Link usually does not manifest a physical, visual image in Communion, but there's a slight, soft imprint of the ridges of his fingerprint scraping against the edge of a sheet of paper. ]

Have you heard of "fate" before? Um, I guess most of you probably have, but it was sort of new to me. Not something I ever really thought about until I came to Kenos.

It's this idea of... everything that has happened, was always going to happen. And everything that will happen in the future has already been decided on, and can't be changed.

Do you think it's real? And what about... "destiny"? Is it different from fate, or the same thing?

Comments

[sterngaze]

Hello, Link.

[It has been a long time since Liem and Link spoke much at all. Perhaps the Hylian might not even recognize the quiet presence that slips in when he opens his mind up to communion.]

There was such a concept, in my own world. It was presided over by a god known Aroden; the fulfillment of destiny was one of his areas of concern. He was heavily associated with prophecy as well—the foretelling of fate—but specifically with the fulfilling of such prophecies, rather than the foreknowledge itself.

[bakedapple]

[ No, he recognizes Liem. Even after all this time, he'll never forget how Liem saved him in Alenroux, all those months ago. ]

Fulfilling them? How would he go about doing that, exactly?

[sterngaze]

I don't know. He died when I was small, and ever since that time, prophecies ceased to be reliable. Events that had been foretold didn't come true, or happened differently than it was said they would.

That was a long time ago, now. Well over a century. Most of what I know of that time, I learned as part of my religious instruction.

[settingup]

[ Atsumu actually gives this one a little thought. He knows what he always considered before this world ending events that brought him here, but he hasn't really sat with his own convictions on this particular issue for awhile.

To his surprise, he finds after a moment that his feelings on the matter haven't changed at all. ]

... Nah, I don't think any of that's real. Shit happens all the time, but we're the ones that make things up as we go. Nothing's predetermined or anything like that.

[appeale]

[ like the last time they briefly spoke, Ruby's mind is cold and detached; and there's no specific hostility directed towards Link, despite her previous scorn. ]

Sure, I believe it's real. Not every single action, but I think some people are fated for certain outcomes no matter what they do. Destiny's just another word for the same thing.

So is "blessing" or "curse."

[kaientai]

Nah, I've got no use for any of that. What's the point in believing we're all just acting out scenes in a drama someone else wrote for us? Why even be alive?

[ Ryouma feels strongly about this, but waking up in a world that hasn't changed for the better has rekindled some of his old fire. These are beliefs formed when he was living in a time and place where the class one was born into could determine someone's fate, and he had given everything he had to destroy that system.

He also keeps running with this drama analogy: ]

In real life, everyone builds a stage that suits their own character, little by little, and then acts out their own drama on it. The circumstances of one's life might affect how long it takes to build it or how grand it is, but no one will build it for you.

In my mind, those circumstances are what destiny is.

[ It's hardly the first word he's decided to redefine. ]

Destiny is just potential — when the circumstances favour a particular outcome, but it doesn't guarantee it. You still have to make your own way, no matter what.

[a_noble_flame]

[Par usual Alice's communion is invitingly warm. There's no fuzzy mental image this time around. It's always quite simplistic and open just as she herself is.]

In my own world "fate" and "destiny" largely mean the same thing. I believe perhaps as far as older stories go "fate" has more of a poor outcome than "destiny" perhaps? They are two paths on a similar road though. As a child I read many such stories though and "fate" always seemed the worse with people fated to kill parents and such. 'Destiny' was braver, something like becoming a beloved king or a heroic knight.

[As to whether it's real? There is a long moment of silence on Alice's end as she mulls over it.]

I believe people need things to help them keep the will to fight against life's troubles. If believing in a "fate" or "destiny" helps them in that then I see no harm in it. If it holds them back or keeps them from moving forward then I would rather they didn't believe in any of it.

For myself? No, I don't believe in it. In deciding the course of my life I believe one day death will claim me in some way -- age, illness or the blade. Until then I will fight.

[bakedapple]

He died...?

Is that... Is it normal for gods in your world to be able to die?

We wouldn't even call someone like that a god. Maybe something else, like a spirit or great fairy, but not a god.

[bakedapple]

I see.

[ Link certainly isn't going to try to argue with Atsumu, or anyone else, on this topic. He really just wanted to hear what other people thought about it. ]

Is that what you think about both your old world and Kenos?

[bakedapple]

[ ...Ah. It's that woman... Set's "wife." Or, priestess? Whatever she is.

There's a moment of hesitation as Link recognizes her, and he's honestly a bit surprised to hear her answering his question so neutrally. ]

I hadn't thought about it that way before. Blessing and curse... But I think fate and destiny is something you'd usually think of as coming from god. A blessing or curse, that can just be magic. Right?

[settingup]

[ That's a question that stings, but if he thinks for a moment that his world was destined to be destroyed, his anger would really boil over. ]

Guess so...

[ Admission that he hasn't really considered it in those terms before. ]

I don't really try thinkin' back on the past like that though. It ain't like I can do anything at this point, so I gotta look forward to the things I can change. You know?

[bakedapple]

Hm. I... think I understand...

[ This is a heady topic for someone like Link, but he's earnestly trying to wrap his mind around it. Ryouma said something that's close to what Link might have said in the past if he were asked this, but instead of "what's the point of believing in fate," it would be "what's the point of caring one way or another"?

But with everything he's learned about himself and his world since coming to Kenos, that question has become very important. ]

I don't think I'd call that destiny, though. Potential isn't really what most people are talking about when it comes to destiny...

Destiny is something... unavoidable.

[bakedapple]

Yeah. I get you. That's probably what I would have said before, if someone had asked me this.

[ but, you know. that was before. this is now. ]

It's more difficult for me. Destiny was a real thing in Hyrule.

[bakedapple]

[ Link can definitely relate to that last part. There's a sensation of him smiling slightly, but then it's gone. ]

That's an interesting way of putting it. Some of what I've read has said a similar thing... in a certain sense, the fate of living things is to die. No matter what happens to us, we're always going to die someday.

[settingup]

[ A reasonable and tactful person would stop to consider the differences between worlds, and think that maybe it's true what Link is saying right now. If nothing else they would recognize that someone's personal beliefs are their own, and should be respected.

But Atsumu has never even heard of the word tact so-- ]

That ain't how things work, even if it seemed like that 'cause people keep insistin' on it.

[appeale]

Who said anything about gods? Maybe that's the case in some worlds, but I'm talking about fate as just... hm. A force of the universe, I suppose.

Like characters in a story. The hero is always going to triumph, and the villain will die. You know?

In that sense, isn't one of those people blessed, and the other one cursed?

[kaientai]

Is it, though? I mean, I guess it can be. Everyone and everything that has ever existed is destined to die one day, and that's unavoidable. It doesn't mean that someone shouldn't fight to survive or that something isn't worth saving for what little time we have to enjoy or experience it.

[ In Ryouma's opinion, it's a respectable end even if you die along the way to achieving one's goals, so you should always try. ]

But what if you're destined for greatness? Or destined to suffer? Or destined to lead your people to their end?

The path of destiny can be laid out before you, but you still have to walk it. A person still has choices. My parents used to worry because they said I was destined to be something, but they weren't sure if it was a horse who could run a thousand leagues or a housecat.

[ He doesn't mean literally, of course, but the difference between someone who could go far and change the world and someone lazy and content to live in comfort close to home. ]

That part was up to me.

[punkisntdead]

[Chloe’s usual brash mental presence and attitude seems to simmer down when Link actually gets around to the topic he’s got in mind. There’s a tenseness clinging to her, and a little bit of guilt she can’t quite wrangle into hiding.]

Yeah, I think there’s something like it. Fate, or whatever label you wanna slap on it.

[She would have thought it all bullshit over a year ago, at least outside of the occasional bitter thought that life always had to suck for her. And then reality started breaking around them all because a friend wouldn’t let Chloe fall victim to the “fate” that seemed out to get her, and, well…]

Doesn’t mean we can’t give it the middle finger and do what we want anyway, though.

[bakedapple]

[ oh Atsumu ]

...N-No, I mean... It really was real. Like, I know it was. I had one.

[bakedapple]

Force of the universe or gods... they're pretty much the same thing if you ask me.

[ He mulls her example over for a second, but comes to a response pretty quickly. ]

In a story, maybe. But I really think it depends on the circumstances. If that hero does nothing but suffer, he wouldn't call it a blessing.

[ Very literally speaking from his own experience with that one, although he keeps that detail to himself. ]

[bakedapple]

Yeah, it is. Unavoidable, I mean. Or at least, that's the type of destiny I'm asking about...

[ Not that he's uninterested in the rest of what Ryouma is saying. The inevitability of death is something that's come up in the things Link has read about fate, as an argument that fate does exist, regardless of free will. But that hadn't been very convincing for Link. After all, death isn't really what people are talking about about when they talk about fate or destiny — in the same way potential isn't really what they mean either. ]

It sounds like you don't really believe in it, then. 'Cause there's this, um, extra thing that keeps coming up in what I've read — this idea of "free will," and how it can't exist at the same time as fate.

Although, I wonder, are fate and destiny the same thing to you? This one book I read treated them as completely different things. Destiny being a little closer to how you're describing it, where someone has a special purpose to their life... And fate being more about everything being predetermined.

[appeale]

Yes, yes. There are tragic heroes, of course. But that's what I mean by a "blessing" or a "curse" – some people will always suffer, and that's their curse. And others are blessed with a happy ending, no matter what they have to go through to reach it.

You can't change from one to the other. That's what fate is, in my opinion.

[ she, too, is speaking from experience. ]

[bakedapple]

[ Ah... This person is new. Link doesn't recognize her. He pauses for a moment, considering what to say; he doesn't even know whether she's a Meri or a Zenite. ]

So... defying fate, then. But if that's possible, then would fate even be a thing?

[punkisntdead]

Sure it is. Doesn't have to be a hundred percent fool-proof to be real, and defying it or whatever isn't exactly easy.

[Which sounds kind of stupid, because she does see what he's getting at with this, but... she doesn't think there's a better word for what she's lived through herself.]

[settingup]

[ Atsumu takes on the sort of tone someone uses when talking to someone they think is kind of delusional. I'm sorry, Link, you don't deserve this. ]

Yeah, man. Sure, like... things were probably different where you were from and all that.